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Skulking Wolves

05/12/08

Permalink 05:19:29 am, by dissidens Email , 737 words, 351 views   English (US)
Categories: Old Main

Skulking Wolves

As topics change and as readership adjusts, it is possible that new Remonstrans readers could benefit from an orientation class. We'll give some thought to that. Meanwhile we should remind everyone of the environment we find ourselves in. (You are all as concerned about the environment as I am, right?)

"This is a country with all too much civility...especially on important issues." I think Berlinski is essentially right. I wouldn't quite say he has the authority of an Apostle, but he does have a sense of proportion religious folk now lack, and besides, religious people don't seem to have much regard for Apostolic authority anyway. Issues of orthodoxy were never more important, never have the clerics so quickly abandoned their flocks, never under more frivolous pretexts, and never with such impunity.

Elsewhere someone posted Ephesians 4:1-6. This would have been a slightly more effective reprimand if the speaker had not already told someone to go masturbate, effectively ending the "dialogue" altogether. To defend the normal meaning of theological terms and to question inane doctrinal fancies is to be, in this person's mind, a demagogue.

And what we have reviewed recently are assorted carpetbaggers, interlopers and dilettantes pretending to know theology and instructing the church on its obligations. We have read moral failures who preach at us about global responsibilities never mentioned in the New Testament. We have dabbled in views of how sexuality aims at the eschaton. We have heard threadbare pleas for "a conversation" from the very same person who creates YouTube videos wherein he accuses others of heterodoxy.

Clearly this is conversation of an extremely low order.

We are at a moment in church history where it can be suggested that the perfect church is one where people can sit around and say whatever they want.

What should be our attitude toward these wolves?

If these pretenders were consistent, if they were honest with the facts of church history and theology, if they showed a willingness to converse with the MacArthurs, Mohlers, Carsons, and Driscolls, Remontrans might welcome "dialogue". Dialogue can be illuminating and enjoyable. (It rarely is, but it can be. I think it happened at the Algonquin Hotel on occasion.) But most of us have grown up observing that this kind of cheap "dialogue" is merely war by other means. These chatterboxes are not after conversation, and nothing could be clearer. We are not obligated to consider your heresy just because you call it a conversation.

This alleged dialogue, this bogus conversation is not aimed at understanding, it is to insinuate error.  I will give you a simple case in point. Find a bookstore or library with a copy of The New Christians, turn to Appendix B, page 229, and read the fifth point—top of the page—which purports to be a "response to our critics".

Fifth, because most of us write as local church practitioners rather than professional scholars, and because the professional scholars who criticize our work may find it hard to be convinced by people outside their guild, we feel it is wisest at this juncture to ask those in the academy to respond to their peers about our work. We hope to generate fruitful conversations at several levels, including both the academic and ecclesial realms. If few in the academy come to our defense in the coming years, then we will have more reason to believe we are mistaken in our thinking and that our critics are correct in their unchallenged analyses.

In other words: it may be apparent to you that we are talking rubbish, but before you tell us we're talking rubbish, talk to other academics, and if in the coming years they say we are talking rubbish, then we will reconsider our position.

Now there is the bracing wind of a Reformation is it not? Imagine that sentiment rife among the Wycliffes, Huses, Zwinglis, Luthers, Melanchthons, Knoxes, Calvins....

If few in the academy come to our defense in the coming years, then we will have more reason to believe we are mistaken in our thinking and that our critics are correct in their unchallenged analyses.

Like a mighty army moves the church of God.

Contrary to what Doug Pagitt tells you, this is not how theology was done in the past; this is not a continuation of a venerable Christian tradition.

This is malarkey.

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1 Comment from: exlibris [Visitor] Email
Hmmm . . . let us compare:

"If few in the academy come to our defense in the coming years, then we will have more reason to believe we are mistaken in our thinking and that our critics are correct in their unchallenged analyses."

Or

"Unless I am convinced by proofs from Scriptures or by plain and clear reasons and arguments, I can and will not retract, for it is neither safe nor wise to do anything against conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen."

There is a comparison. Lewis spoke of "men without chests." I'm uncertain that I could say, the sort of anatomical part that might be missing in the case of the former. Perhaps their whole moral fiber could be considered limp and languid.
PermalinkPermalink 05/12/08 @ 18:33

Reply to comment 5100 by exlibris

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2 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email
Men with neither chests nor heads, apparently.
PermalinkPermalink 05/13/08 @ 05:01

Reply to comment 5103 by dissidens

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3 Comment from: k-wg [Visitor] Email
But, of course, the admonishment of Ephesians 4:1-6 isn't Kevin Corcoran's. It's the Apostle Paul's. Too bad it hasn't been more effective.
PermalinkPermalink 05/13/08 @ 07:48

Reply to comment 5105 by k-wg

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4 Comment from: Sofros [Visitor] Email
Yes, K-wg,

Those are the words of the Apostle Paul. But what is the one faith? Who is the one Lord? What is the one body? How can we keep the unity of the Spirit if there is nothing to be unified around?

I think we need to realize something - the god of Doug Pagitt and the God I worship are two very different persons. The god of Brian Mclaren and the God of historic, reformed orthodoxy are two different gods. Thus, you are right. I wish that Eph 4:1-6 would be more effective - in setting up the separation which exists between the emerging church and biblical Christianity.
PermalinkPermalink 05/13/08 @ 09:04

Reply to comment 5107 by Sofros

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5 Comment from: k-wg [Visitor] Email
I take the kind of "biblical Christianity" displayed here no more seriously than I take the emerging church. I'll be more likely to take this "biblical Christianity" seriously when I find evidence that it is taking the Bible seriously.

When Paul speaks of living "worthy of the calling...with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love" are we really to believe he means "worthy of the calling...with harsh scorn and insult, impatiently, pridefully, with no forbearance whatsoever"?
PermalinkPermalink 05/13/08 @ 10:42

Reply to comment 5109 by k-wg

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6 Comment from: danofsteel [Member] Email
I think it's problematic to include false teachers in the "one another" we are admonished to forbear.

Don't you think it's a tad ironic that you and Kevin don't apply Eph 4:1-6 to dissidens, yet demand that he apply it to absolutely everyone?

PermalinkPermalink 05/13/08 @ 11:41

Reply to comment 5111 by danofsteel

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7 Comment from: k-wg [Visitor] Email
dansofsteel,

I don't recall demanding any such thing of dissidens. I've simply urged him to consider the extent to which his manner of treating those with whom he disagrees is consistent with Christian love.

Do you feel that I've done that in a less than loving way? I guess that would be ironic.

I'm not sure what demands Kevin Corcoran has made.
PermalinkPermalink 05/13/08 @ 12:08

Reply to comment 5112 by k-wg

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8 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
I’m confused. You guys keep raking this Kevin Corcoran over the coals. I visited
his blog and, in answer to someone’s question about what he believes, KC answered by reciting one of the Creeds (one of the big three). I have no reason doubt his sincerity. So I don’t get what, according to you, he’s supposed to believe but doesn’t or does believe but shouldn’t. Maybe you can help?
PermalinkPermalink 05/14/08 @ 09:39

Reply to comment 5117 by Kevin

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9 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email
Well, Kevin, since you are speaking for Kevin I suppose symmetry demands that I speak for dissidens.

Dissidens is delighted that Kevin quoted one of the Creeds. In fact, it would not be hyperbole to say he was jubilant. He straightway shouted out to the office manager to go ahead and order the big cake and the large assortment of blow ticklers because the whole Dallas office would mark the anniversary with much singing, dancing and exchanging of votive candles.

I think the point at issue was his mischaracterization of the debate with fatuous comments which betray such a profound disrespect for the historic faith.

And so long as you don’t doubt his sincerity, I suppose that pretty much resolves all remaining differences.

Please convey to Kevin that dissidens is also quite sincere.
PermalinkPermalink 05/14/08 @ 14:29

Reply to comment 5123 by dissidens

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10 Comment from: k-wg [Visitor] Email
Greg L. and Uncultured One,
dissidens makes my point quite well. When did Jesus, Paul, or any other New Testament author behave like this? Where does the New Testament tell us to behave like this? This is love?
PermalinkPermalink 05/14/08 @ 14:56

Reply to comment 5124 by k-wg

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11 Comment from: Jay C. [Visitor] Email
While I would probably be wrong in inferring that the carpetbaggers, interlopers, and dilletantes was a reference only to me, I'd be shocked if I wasn't included in this group of "skulking wolves" (btw what are the requirements for this title?)

Yes, I guess I am guilty--and I guess the other carpetbaggers too--of reminding the church of it obligations. Aren't you doing that as well, though?

This part may not have been directed toward me, but if it wasn't it sure wasn't clear. As for Piper, Driscoll, etc. (I listen to them more often than the others). I've checked their websites, and I didn't find a thing there that contradicted in the least anything I've said about here on this blog. Again, that part probably wasn't directed toward me, but it seems necessary to point out that this isn't a uniform opposition.
PermalinkPermalink 05/14/08 @ 17:38

Reply to comment 5128 by Jay C.

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12 Comment from: Jay C. [Visitor] Email
Sofros,
You raise an interesting question, so I'm just curious: what is the criteria for worshipping the same God? How many beliefs must you have in common to worship the same God or to sit at the same table in Christian fellowship?
PermalinkPermalink 05/14/08 @ 17:45

Reply to comment 5129 by Jay C.

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13 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
What debate did he mischaracterize? And what fatuous comments did he make that betrayed profound disrespect for the historic faith?
PermalinkPermalink 05/15/08 @ 07:46

Reply to comment 5137 by Kevin

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