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A Minimum Of Skills

06/06/08

Permalink 06:03:41 am, by dissidens Email , 384 words, 527 views   English (US)
Categories: Old Main

A Minimum Of Skills

Art is very, very important.

Some art, as we saw Wednesday, can spark vital conversations on important issues of the day. Often it provides people with an occasion for venting favored resentments. We all have been terribly wronged in this life, but it can be uncomfortable just to walk up to someone cold turkey and kvetch without having laid the proper groundwork. That would be so gauche. This is where art comes into play. Notice how the nakedpastor, with nothing more than a felt-tipped pen, can excite PC outrage and provoke really deep thoughts. This is what art does for us.

Over on Solomon's Porch they have another theory of art:

We believe that beauty, art and creativity should be valued, used, and understood as coming from or being connected to the Creator.

Here they don't say much about what it exists to do or what makes it excellent or meaningful, and to look through their galleries and read their comments one concludes they don't know what it exists for except to sell. Incidentally, wander through Pagitt's site and try to find ways you could make it even more commercial, more self-promoting.

Doug Pagitt holds that Story has a place in Christian outreach: Story is something the Church might employ using "a minimum of communication skills". The Church should, "utilize hospitality and community in a greater way".

This of course is what King David and the Psalms are all about.

Some of you will find these aesthetic theories somewhat dubious. You might think these are the idle thoughts of incompetent bumpkins. Perhaps that is only because you have not seen Emergent Art at its finest. For that I direct your attention to this. This is Tony Jones using a minimum of communication skills.

There is nothing we can do, except perhaps to tune his mandolin for him, to improve his art.

And at this point I must caution our readers: the above link takes you to an emergent website, and Remonstrans cannot be held responsible for any smut posted there as a show of hospitality and community. You might want to send your children out of the room before clicking on the link.

"The church is for those who question and think" sings Tony.

So good to know.

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1 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
dis:

Thanks for the links. Help me out here:
"Jesus, Jesus, Kingdom of God revealed.
Love is the way and we follow each day, and in him all is healed.

The words of Tony's little ditty. Um....help me....you have a problem with that theology? That's the gospel, brother!

Under the Life Giving Mercy,
Kevin
PermalinkPermalink 06/06/08 @ 08:59

Reply to comment 5207 by Kevin

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2 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email
Kevin:

As a closer reading will reveal, I have a problem with the song. I have spoken of Tony’s theology elsewhere.

It—the song—is one of those dumb things religious people often say because they are shallow and lazy or, to coin a phrase, because they do not question and think. As for the theology of the song, it is bad; I wouldn’t want to confuse the bad theology behind it with the song itself because, as I say, it is just a dumb song. It seems to be a great example of “minimal communication skills”.

As for whether it is the Gospel, I’ll take your claim as a statement of your belief.
PermalinkPermalink 06/06/08 @ 10:48

Reply to comment 5208 by dissidens

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3 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
"Jesus, Jesus, Kingdom of God revealed.
Love is the way and we follow each day, and in him all is healed."


Dumb? Bad? Are you kidding me? Wow! 'nuff said.
PermalinkPermalink 06/06/08 @ 11:31

Reply to comment 5209 by Kevin

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4 Comment from: chris [Visitor] Email
Wow, Kevin has really changed since last time he left in a huff!
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 08:21

Reply to comment 5210 by chris

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5 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
Hey Chris,

Not so much. Actually, the last time I left wasn't in a huff. I left, if memory serves me, in the interrogative mood, w/a question for diss; a question he never bothered to answer. But I know the drill here now. Questions and answers aren't really the currency exchanged. It's more thrash-n-bash. Apparently, even the good news of the gospel isn't above bashing.

Pax vobiscum,
Kevin
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 11:19

Reply to comment 5211 by Kevin

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6 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email
Chris:

I think we have a lot of gas under a lot of pressure.
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 14:14

Reply to comment 5212 by dissidens

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7 Comment from: exlibris [Visitor] Email
Naw. . .Kev just had one of his trivialities lampooned, and he is ur. . . um . . . put out with it.

Just as food for thought: Even demons believe good theology. I wonder how they express it.

"These men are servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to you the way of salvation."

Acts: 16:17

I suppose Paul was just thrashing-n-bashing when he commanded that demon to get out.

Chris, Dominus vobiscum, dude!
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 15:40

Reply to comment 5213 by exlibris

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8 Comment from: exlibris [Visitor] Email
BTW, Kevin,

at the risk of getting snarky, and be careful lest you syllogize around here . . .

but since you were addressing Chris, just as I followed you . . .polishing off my Latin grammar here . . . shouldn't that be pax tecum, not pax vobiscum??

I would use the former in addressing a singular person, the latter in addressing a group - like a congregation or something. But, suspend the judgment, because I know just enough Latin to be dangerous.

Pax et bonum
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 15:50

Reply to comment 5214 by exlibris

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9 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
That's the way, boys. I'm sure our Lord and your mom's are very proud.

btw: I don't know how the demons express their beliefs, but here are some trivialities from first John:

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

This is a good one, too:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

If you think this last verse doesn't apply to you, I'm sure Paul meant to include fallen angels among the angels he mentions there.

Cheers,
Kevin


PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 16:09

Reply to comment 5215 by Kevin

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10 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email
Mom's what?
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 16:16

Reply to comment 5216 by dissidens

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11 Comment from: k-wg [Visitor] Email
Kevin:

Oddly, (unless I've completely misunderstood a previous exchange here) they think they are loving you.
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 16:37

Reply to comment 5217 by k-wg

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12 Comment from: MAS [Visitor] Email · http://oldemike.blogspot.com
One might consider what Tony means when he sings those words. And even if he meant them in the best possible way, the lyrics are so vaguely written that I'm sure the Oprah herself could sing them without contradicting her atrocious beliefs.
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 17:04

Reply to comment 5218 by MAS

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13 Comment from: k-wg [Visitor] Email
If you suspect that Tony's words have some obscure meaning, why spend time speculating about what that meaning might be? Why not just ask him?

Oprah believes that Jesus reveals God's Kingdom?
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 17:17

Reply to comment 5219 by k-wg

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14 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
Diss:

Thanks for catching the grammatical infelicity(the apostrophe in "mom's"). You'd make a fine copy editor, you would.

Kevin
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 17:50

Reply to comment 5220 by Kevin

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15 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email
Thanks.

Mom would be proud.
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 17:58

Reply to comment 5221 by dissidens

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16 Comment from: chris [Visitor] Email
MAS:

One might consider authorial intent, but the rigor of such considerations might not give one the same glandular response one is generally looking for when one intentionally listens to such music.

Similarly, when one quotes snippets of Scripture apart from their broader context trying to take the high road of piety, one's position may seem unasailable on its surface. One may believe that since love is nice, and the Bible clearly says "God is love," that anything that doesn't feel loving to one cannot be right or good or of eternal value. One feels justified in skipping over the difficult sections of the Bible because one is pretty sure that God is just love, and one has several phrases gleaned from a book of over a thousand pages to prove it.

Thus one's bias toward gratification becomes the measure of all spiritual things. You're right, Oprah probably would like that!
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 19:11

Reply to comment 5222 by chris

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17 Comment from: exlibris [Visitor] Email
Kevin,

You care to lecture us on love, and you act like this?

I haven't seen conversations like this since Junior High.

A little history here: dissidens criticized your Latin word study. You chided him for not being more dialog friendly. He returned the favor for his own reasons. Then, you potty-posted.

I want to take exhortations on how to be loving from you?


PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 19:26

Reply to comment 5223 by exlibris

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18 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
Lecturing? Conversations? What'd I miss?

Under That Life Giving Mercy,
Kevin
PermalinkPermalink 06/07/08 @ 21:17

Reply to comment 5224 by Kevin

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19 Comment from: chris [Visitor] Email
k-wg:

Yes, Oprah believes that Jesus revealed God's kingdom. Just like Gandhi, Buddha, John Lennon, Maya Angelou, and the pope reveal God's kingdom. Just like she perceives herself as revealing God's kingdom. Just like we all do every time we commit acts of selflessnes and kindness.

On what grounds would you say that her interpretation of God's kingdom or Jesus' revelation of it is invalid?
PermalinkPermalink 06/08/08 @ 07:13

Reply to comment 5225 by chris

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20 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
Chris,

...Gandhi, Buddha, John Lennon, Maya Angelou, and the pope reveal God's kingdom. Just like [Oprah] herself [reveals] God's kingdom. Just like we all do every time we commit acts of selflessnes and kindness...

So, you're a believer in common grace, are ya. Awesome! Me too. I agree that all those folks you mention reveal something true and beautiful about God's kingdom. Oprah too. It's as you say, like we all do every time we commit acts of unselfishness and kindness.

Of course, as you know doubt realize, revealing something of God's kingdom, even something true and beautiful, and being a Christian are two different things. But, hey, God spoke through Balaam's Ass in the O.T. So no surprise really that he might reveal something of his kingdom in all those you mention. Gives me a little hope, actually. Maybe God can reveal something of his kingdom even through me.

Peace,
Kevin
PermalinkPermalink 06/08/08 @ 10:51

Reply to comment 5226 by Kevin

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21 Comment from: David [Member] Email
Gee - Isaiah was such a putz, not to realize filthy rags demonstrate God's kingdom. The Holy Spirit must have been looking the other way when he penned this.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;
PermalinkPermalink 06/08/08 @ 11:34

Reply to comment 5227 by David

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22 Comment from: k-wg [Visitor] Email
Chris,

Have you read or watched material in which Oprah claims that belief (that Jesus reveals God's Kingdom)? If so, I'd appreciate you directing me to it.
PermalinkPermalink 06/08/08 @ 15:58

Reply to comment 5228 by k-wg

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23 Comment from: chris [Visitor] Email
k-wg:

I will attempt to track it down for you.

Kevin:

Learn to read honestly.
PermalinkPermalink 06/08/08 @ 18:03

Reply to comment 5229 by chris

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24 Comment from: David [Visitor] Email
Kevin,

Is "know doubt" an emergent motto?

Or a Freudian slip?
PermalinkPermalink 06/10/08 @ 06:53

Reply to comment 5230 by David

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25 Comment from: Kevin [Visitor] Email · http://www.holyskinandbone.blogspot.com
David,

A slip, to be sure. Unlike a polished piece I might edit to make publication-ready, I must confess I don't spend a lot of time editing blog comments. Probably should, though. On the other hand, I guess I have kept you and Diss on your toes cleaning up my prose here.

Peace,
Kevin
PermalinkPermalink 06/10/08 @ 12:22

Reply to comment 5231 by Kevin

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