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The Missing Jewel

01/09/09

Permalink 05:48:27 am, by dissidens Email , 1086 words, 4716 views   English (US)
Categories: Old Main

The Missing Jewel

What follows is an oblique and public response to various unrecognized premises underlying a handful of recent [private and off-line, thus no links] conversations. I call it a catechism, but it is really only catechism-esque. It does not attempt a complete, systematic answer as catechisms do, and it certainly does not attempt to answer the questions that philistines suppose are important. Questions 3, 4, and 5, for example, are synecdochic: the principle applies not only to the instrument but to the performance and the work.

So this answers the questions that ought to be asked but aren't. It addresses premises which the philistines won't consider but should.

Given our grim state of affairs, I recognize this is a complete waste of effort. I do not imagine that anything remotely like serious reflection will follow. I do not think the church wants to fix what is broken. I do not believe those who currently profit from their own appetites are inclined to repent. So you must understand that this is rather an academic and theoretical exercise, but I offer it hoping that such an exercise can still provide some guidance when answering fools and degenerates.



THE DISSIDENS CATECHISM

Q: What is the chief end of man?

A: The chief end of man is to love God and worship him aright.

 

Q: How is God to be worshiped?

A: God is to be worshiped in every human thought and conscious act, but he has most specifically commanded that men praise him with song.

 

Q: Upon what instruments is man to worship God?

A: Upon the Bösendorfer, the Stradivari, and the Gofriller.

 

Q: Why these instruments?

A: Why not these instruments?

 

Q: Who's asking the questions here?

A: We seek to worship on these instruments because they give greatest expressive power to the worshiper and permit the subtlest nuance of our art.

 

Q: Does art belong in worship?

A: There is no true worship without art in the same way that there is no statement of truth without grammar. A desultory recitation of mundane facts about God does not constitute worship. God's simplest act demands our most scrutinizing imagination and our highest expression of admiration (hence the need for the Bösendorfers...). Trite statements ambivalently executed on inferior instruments are not just unworthy of God, they are unworthy of man.


Q: What is the result of artless worship?

A: The hearts of the people are turned to all manner of wretchedness and profanity so that what is offered as worship is in fact self-indulgence.

 

Q: Can children and those yet untrained in the canons of art nevertheless worship?

A: It is possible for the young, the naïve, and the parochial to utter partial truths with varying degrees of skill, but the immature and untrained cannot—by definition—speak cogently to the affections and obligations of all men everywhere.

 

Q: Why are naïve, parochial, and merely subjective expressions to be discouraged?

A: All naïve and parochial expressions are to be discouraged because they fall short of human capacities, they do not accord with the example of scripture, nor do they aspire to that perfection we see in Heaven.

 

Q: What if the audience does not understand the art?

A: The only proper audience for worship understands everything.

 

Q: What is to be done with the immature and the naïve?

A: The immature and the naive are to be instructed: they are to be shown what is best in order to develop the proper judgment without which worship is not possible.

 

Q: Does this mean that worship belongs only to the virtuoso?

A: Worship does not belong only to the virtuoso any more than health belongs only to the physician, but the physician has a fuller and disciplined understanding of what it takes to maintain health. The sick go to a doctor rather than an enthusiastic or well-meaning duffer hoping his good intentions will substitute for skill.

 

Q: What is to be done with the philistine?

A: The philistine is to be put to death. The philistine that dies in the city is to be given to the dogs to eat, and the philistine that dies in the country is to be given to the birds of the air to eat.

 

Q: Now can I get a less provocative answer?

A: The philistine is to be encouraged to confess his sins and worship the one and true God.

 

Q: Does God reject all inferior worship?

A: It has been said that God is easy to please but hard to satisfy. God demands perfect obedience: he does not accept the partial and intermittent compliance that we find appropriate given our preferences or our own judgment of things. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy soul, heart, strength and mind, by which we are intended to understand that we do not love the Lord our God at whatever level of incompetence our ambient culture has left us.

God is certainly capable of accepting the modest things we offer even as he accepted the modest offerings of the poor in Israel. What he does not accept is the diseased and the lame. And in addition to this, in accepting the modest thing, God is looking on the heart. Here we are judging the fitness of the offering, not the disposition of the heart.

 

Q: Does a high view of worship disadvantage the common churchgoer?

A: In no way; that is like arguing that one can't enjoy a dish until he memorizes the recipe.

This error flows from a profound misunderstanding of the nature of man and art. It is often supposed that the "rules of art" are arbitrary and arcane precepts that comprise the meaning of a work. It assumes without evidence that art is appreciated only by the knowledgeable. A beautiful melody is a beautiful melody whether or not the listener understands how the composer did it or whether or not he can explain it in a university.

If a musical idea is transformed or developed during the course of the performance, it is transformed and developed for everyone listening. The level of appreciation may vary between novice and expert, but the effect the composer intended registers with every careful listener.

And to suppose that inept melodies or undeveloped ideas are especially suited to the common man is simple bigotry.


Q: Why ought all of this to be important to us?

A:  This ought to be important to us because this is the chief end of man.

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1 Comment from: a hungry soul [Member] Email
Outstanding!
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 06:16

Reply to comment 5826 by a hungry soul

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2 Comment from: the divine passive [Visitor] Email
Well stated.

I would like to suggest a provision: if a philistine dies within the city and the dogs are too discerning to eat him, he is to be loaded onto a trebuchet and sent over the city wall. Or perhaps he should be crated up and shipped to Greenville, SC, where he will receive an honorary doctorate.

And I would also like to suggest that we treat the works of philistines the same way, although my dog appears to be too discerning to eat SMS CD's, and I don't have a trebuchet built up just yet. Perhaps I should hang them on the wall of the city?
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 06:28

Reply to comment 5827 by the divine passive

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3 Comment from: de profundis [Visitor] Email
"Upon the Bösendorfer, the Stradivari, and the Gofriller."

Okay, but only as long as we can get the "Dumky" Trio somewhere on the program.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 07:10

Reply to comment 5828 by de profundis

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4 Comment from: Guest [Visitor] Email
How should worship be defined?
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 08:21

Reply to comment 5829 by Guest

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5 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

divine passive:

I’m liking the idea of a trebuchet; I might even suggest that we name our trebuchet THE HURLFORTH.

But I’m not so much liking the idea of sending this stuff down to the poor townspeople, not to mention that this is where we also get our crops and drinking water.

And whatever good standing you earned with the trebuchet idea you lost with the “hang the stuff on the wall” idea. That idea will generate at least 8 nightmares.


de profundis

I like all the dumky, but even better for this context, how about his Biblical Songs set for the piano trio?


PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 08:21

Reply to comment 5830 by dissidens

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6 Comment from: Regulative [Visitor] Email
This was very good and helpful.

We're on the same page on this. It is important to me. I appreciate that it is with you.

I don't necessarily want to have you do all the work, but could you answer these? I need help with talking points. I would like you to do the antithetical on this as well.

What is low worship?
Why does low worship not fulfill the objective?
What is art?
When is "art" no longer art?

Some will question your epistemology.

Who is a philistine?
How has modernity harmed true worship?

I thank you in advance if you answer these.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 11:51

Reply to comment 5831 by Regulative

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7 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Guest:

I define worship (in this sense) as a work of the imagination whereby we offer to God what is true, appropriate, felt in the heart, and held in common by the Church.

I say “in this sense” to do justice to our context. In another sense it is not unreasonable to include simple obedience and good works as acts of worship as well. But we are talking here more in the sense of liturgical worship.

On Remonstrans I have tried to represent orthodox Christianity as normative rather than my personal views. So this working definition I have taken from others. Two of the elements—the “true” and “felt in the heart”—I have taken directly from Tozer. (Sermons which were transcribed and published under the title Worship: The Missing Jewel in The Evangelical Church. The Missing Jewel in my title refers to worship, not my catechism of course.)

I have added the word appropriate to preclude factual but poetically false statements (e.g. Drop-kick me, Jesus, through the goalposts of life).

And though Tozer doesn’t list the last element, he did end his sermon by quoting the Te Deum. I think the shared testimony is integral to worship so I include it explicitly in our definition. This is consistent with the Psalms, St. Paul and St. John….


PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 12:51

Reply to comment 5832 by dissidens

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8 Comment from: David [Visitor] Email
I was wondering how long it was gonna take for SharperIron to post a link...

Sorry 'bout the carpet, Diss.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 12:58

Reply to comment 5833 by David

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9 Comment from: Guest [Visitor] Email
Thank you.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 12:58

Reply to comment 5834 by Guest

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10 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

David:

We'll have new stuff installed before it becomes a real health hazard.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 13:09

Reply to comment 5835 by dissidens

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11 Comment from: bob [Visitor] Email
I'm still trying to figure out who is a philistine?

You might need to dumb it down for me. One of my greatest challenges in life has always been trying to discern a metonym from a synecdoche.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 14:51

Reply to comment 5836 by bob

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12 Comment from: Scott Paulson [Visitor] Email · http://dandelionend.wordpress.com
Enjoyable read, including the comments. Regarding the use of instruments, it just now struck me that your reasoning may have also been part of the reasoning behind the prohibition upon instruments by certain church groups, including some of the Brethren churches, and some groups I know not the name. That it to say, perhaps they had other reasons behind banning all instruments, particularly the piano and guitar, but perhaps one could reason that poor instrumental music is worse than no instrumental music.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 17:54

Reply to comment 5837 by Scott Paulson

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13 Comment from: the divine passive [Visitor] Email
Dissidens:

A really stout trebuchet might land them in the middle of the lake...

As far as hanging it on the wall, I meant hang it like the carcass of a defeated general. Hang it like the garbage that it is, let people watch flies land on the stuff that has perverted the ability of our friends and children to love God properly. Expose it, lay it bare, hold it up alongside the true and the right, and don't spare the feelings of the squeamish.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 19:23

Reply to comment 5838 by the divine passive

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14 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Regulative:

Well, I don’t use the term “low worship” because people tend to equate low worship with low church, and I don’t think that’s a useful distinction. I gather that the term is intended to denote the cornpone, homespun, aw-shucks-I’m-jes-a-countreeboy goofiness that makes people comfy with their reverse-elitism. My experience is that some believe low worship to be more informal and therefore more genuine and heart-felt.

I can’t really answer the second question until we share a definition of “low worship”. Tentatively I can say that a bunch of smug, lower-middle class people swaying back and forth while singing “Leeeeeeeeeening, leeeeeeeeeeeening, leaning on the everlasting arms” is not something the patriarchs, saints and angels would find tolerable. Worship is not a grinning, feel-good, shake-hands-with-your-neighbor social event.

By art I mean: “skill in doing anything as a result of knowledge and practice.” [OED] I would have used the word artifice, but that connotes artificial and contrived, even devious. Craft suggests quilts and pottery barns. Art is the proper word to use in spite of the fact that there are many who equate art in this sense with Art, that hoity-toity Paris/New Yawk stuff what ain’t even fit ta lookit.

Given that definition, I don’t know when art is no longer art.

A philistine is a) a person who is guided by materialism and is usually disdainful of intellectual or artistic values, b) a person who is lacking in or hostile or smugly indifferent to cultural values, intellectual pursuits, aesthetic refinement, etc., or is contentedly commonplace in ideas and tastes, and c) as one critic contrasted them, a philistine is an unrefined person who has spurned civilization after the fact as opposed to a barbarian who has never enjoyed its fruits.

I think all three aspects are evident in fundagelicalism.

Modernity has debased worship in many ways. Probably the two most conspicuous ways are its obsession with pop and its insufferable arrogance. It boggles the mind to see people who can’t even write a book review can stand in judgment over Aristotle, Augustine, Faber, Kaplan, Eliot…

PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 19:49

Reply to comment 5839 by dissidens

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15 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

divine passive:

I gotcha.


Scott Paulson:

Well, I am almost sympathetic to that idea. If it meant the end of the corruptions of Soundfroth and Dino, I would be sorely tempted to agree.

The insurmountable problem is found in God’s commands and the exalted example in Scripture and history.
PermalinkPermalink 01/09/09 @ 20:00

Reply to comment 5840 by dissidens

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16 Comment from: Curious George [Member] Email
God is certainly capable of accepting the modest things we offer even as he accepted the modest offerings of the poor in Israel. What he does not accept is the diseased and the lame.


In biology, we can identify diseased or lame specimens by seeing how their function deviates from their species' prototype.

How does the analogy apply to art in worship? Artistic genres don't seem to be either as clear or fixed as biological species, so identifying a genre prototype seems harder. How do you do that? Or is there a better way to distinguish "modest" art from "lame" art?

Would you be willing to give an example of a "modest" worship song and of a "lame" worship song, with a brief explanation for each's classification?
PermalinkPermalink 01/10/09 @ 14:29

Reply to comment 5841 by Curious George

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17 Comment from: ¢¢ [Visitor] Email
Hmm...my "epistemology" has been changing as I reflect on these things. I'm intrigued that I have not seen an in-depth biblical definition of lame or unblemished. It seems to be understood that the Israelite knew from some outside source or common knowledge what was blemished and that the standard was in some way absolute.

Is it also worth noting that in Malachi, Yahweh the Almighty, though he could have referred to the Levitical instruction on bringing an unblemished offering, chose simply to point out that the priests/people wouldn't even have brought blemished offerings to the governor, yet they brought such offerings to him forgetting that he is "a great King"?

I, for one, would foolishly have cried foul at that point. "There you go arguing from culture again. Maybe you would bring one kind of offering to a king, but I would bring another. It's all a matter of taste; all that's important is that I'm bringing it with a sincere heart."
PermalinkPermalink 01/10/09 @ 15:44

Reply to comment 5842 by ¢¢

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18 Comment from: regulative [Visitor] Email
Thanks.

When I said "low worship," I was saying "low view of worship." What makes it a low view of worship? Some can do a very good job of imitating a modern pop singer, so they think they have a high view of worship.

I appreciate what you wrote. Thank you.
PermalinkPermalink 01/10/09 @ 19:37

Reply to comment 5843 by regulative

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19 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Curious George:

“Artistic genes”?! You think art is made by people with artistic genes? Do you think maybe people have worship genes?

I wonder if Frank Garlock should be tested for worship genes.
PermalinkPermalink 01/10/09 @ 19:57

Reply to comment 5844 by dissidens

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20 Comment from: Curious George [Member] Email
At first I thought, "Ha ha, I must have misspelled 'genre,'" which would be funny because I mentioned biology. But I didn't.
PermalinkPermalink 01/10/09 @ 20:49

Reply to comment 5845 by Curious George

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21 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Nonono, I didn’t think you said that. (My quotation marks were confusing; I didn’t intend them as direct attribution.)

But I still don’t see a connection. If you aren’t talking about “artistic genes”—in quotes merely as a classification—what are you saying?

PermalinkPermalink 01/11/09 @ 11:48

Reply to comment 5846 by dissidens

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22 Comment from: exlibris [Visitor] Email
"Q: Upon what instruments is man to worship God?

A: Upon the Bösendorfer, the Stradivari, and the Gofriller.



Q: Why these instruments?

A: Why not these instruments?"

Please, do not let my sons read this! The cost of these affections is sure to bankrupt me. But, maybe that is the point.
PermalinkPermalink 01/11/09 @ 16:09

Reply to comment 5847 by exlibris

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23 Comment from: Curious George [Member] Email
But I still don’t see a connection. If you aren’t talking about “artistic genes”—in quotes merely as a classification—what are you saying?


Sorry for being unclear. I'm not referring to the artist or worshiper per se (so no "artistic genes"), because with you I'm interested here in understanding "the fitness of the offering, not the disposition of the heart." Instead, I'm referring to your analogy between the fitness of temple sacrifices (they can be "modest" but not "diseased" or "lame") and the fitness of the art we use in worship.

I think that has the ring of truth, but I'm not sure how to parse the analogy with respect to distinguishing between "modest" and "lame" art.

As I mentioned, the criteria for determining a "lame" or "diseased" animal seem pretty clear: compare what the animal is and does to a prototypical member of its species. If you show me a particular animal I can say with objectivity whether it's lame/diseased or just modest.

However, I have many questions about how to make a similar distinction with art. Unsure what the analogy to "species" would be, I suggested "genre," which is how that word crept in. My notion was that we could judge a work of art by prototypical artwork from its genre. If that's what you have in mind, then I have more questions; if it's not, then I would like to know what you do have in mind.
PermalinkPermalink 01/11/09 @ 18:47

Reply to comment 5848 by Curious George

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24 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email
regulative:

A low view of worship is any view, any view at all, that accommodates a low view of God.

There are those who suppose that if their statement of faith is orthodox (or separatist or evangelistic or missional), then anything they naturally do must be acceptable. We know this is false. We know this from the Bible itself. We know this from experience. We can reason this out.

So from all the three sources of knowledge (authority, reason and experience) we know this is a false assumption.

Calvin told us our hearts are idol factories, but we have no way of knowing how this happens.

I think this is very strange.
PermalinkPermalink 01/12/09 @ 06:05

Reply to comment 5849 by dissidens

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25 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

ex libris:

Yah, that sure will be hard to explain to Moses, King David and that angel what keeps showing St. John things in the Apocalypse.
PermalinkPermalink 01/12/09 @ 06:09

Reply to comment 5850 by dissidens

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26 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Curious:

Beats me, dude.

If you come across any info on the similarities between prototypical member of a species and literary genres, I hope you drop by to enlighten me.

Sounds like fundamentalist aesthetics to me.


PermalinkPermalink 01/12/09 @ 14:36

Reply to comment 5853 by dissidens

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27 Comment from: Curious George [Member] Email
Beats me, dude.

If you come across any info on the similarities between prototypical member of a species and literary genres, I hope you drop by to enlighten me.

Sounds like fundamentalist aesthetics to me.


Maybe so; point me to a fundamentalist treatise on aesthetics, and I'll look into it.

But what's the right way to understand your distinction between "modest" and "lame" artistic offerings? It seems like an important one, and you must have had something in mind. Won't you explain it?
PermalinkPermalink 01/12/09 @ 16:13

Reply to comment 5854 by Curious George

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28 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

George:

Well, my distinction is very straightforward. A child that can’t yet ride a bike can understand this stuff.

Clearly the OT allows inexpensive offerings to meet the requirements of less well-off worshipers. What the OT clearly forbids is defective offerings; purity is the issue, not cost. What is modest is defined by financial considerations; what is lame is defined by unfitness.

I have never objected to simple forms and modest appetites. Indeed what I have said is that I favor the simple because philistines cannot handle the advanced stuff. They need bunny slopes to get used to their equipment. Today’s philistines can’t begin to understand Eliot even if the poems have glosses and explanatory footnotes; they are going to have to break their teeth on Burns. Maybe even Dr. Seuss.

When it comes to religious music, read the body of work that is unique to Majesty Hymns: the Garlock/Hamilton/Peterson/Lynch bilge. It does not reward reflection at all; it is banal. It confines the imagination and puts the soul to sleep, and these are the very things that art seeks to remedy. MH does not whet the appetite or excite an appreciation for Tersteegen, Faber, Gerhardt, Zinzendorf… It cuts us off from the past just as broader evangelicalism has done with that stuff that makes cows produce less milk.

Do for yourself what I have done on Remonstrans. Take examples of good and bad to a fundamentalist and demand an explanation of their preference—because clearly it is their preference.

They actually prefer what is bland and unimaginative; it is by choice they put awe and delight and wonder out of reach.

Now, take that same sort of inquiry and apply it to a reading of Kaplan. Kaplan is painting a much larger picture. Instead of a simple comparison of words and music, he tackles the matter of form.

His thesis is that some music fails to function: “it is lifeless, Bergson would say, because it is only a succession of mechanical repetitions…”. That one fact in itself, if true, raises all sorts of doubts about what is fitting for worship. God explicitly said he did not want mechanical repetitions; it doesn’t take a Walter Pater to see that a form that is premised on mechanical repetitions is not suitable for the worship of a God who despises mechanical repetitions.

If a thing is a stereotype, if it is formulaic, if it is derivative, then some of us would like to know why we should allow it a place alongside music that is not stereotypical, formulaic and derivative. If a liturgy is sappy, maudlin, vapid, tired and threadbare, why use it? Why enshrine it as “Christ-honoring”?

This stuff is not inexpensive, it is unfit.


PermalinkPermalink 01/12/09 @ 17:29

Reply to comment 5855 by dissidens

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29 Comment from: de profundis [Visitor] Email
Are you apeaking of the Kaplan you linked to in the comments of this post:

http://remonstrans.net/index.php/2006/07/16/dirty_company

If so, could you refresh the link? It does not seem to work anymore.

Thank you.
PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 05:43

Reply to comment 5856 by de profundis

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30 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Yes; same Kaplan, same article.

Back when Roadrunner bought out Comcast I was assured my website wouldn’t be lost. Turns out I lost the website anyway.

I have the article in pdf format and will send you a copy if you’d like.
PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 06:19

Reply to comment 5857 by dissidens

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31 Comment from: exlibris [Visitor] Email
"I have the article in pdf format and will send you a copy if you’d like."

Now, that is full service blogging!

Folks, it just doesn't get any better.
PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 08:06

Reply to comment 5858 by exlibris

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32 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

That's an idea we had some time ago and never followed up on. It would be nice to have a library for related pdf docs.
PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 09:08

Reply to comment 5859 by dissidens

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33 Comment from: Unk [Visitor] Email
The missing jewel in the crown of Remonstrans.

Or perhaps, the missing weapon in the arsenal.
PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 09:30

Reply to comment 5860 by Unk

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34 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Well, if there is enough of an interest in having that, let me ask Servo what our options are.

PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 09:47

Reply to comment 5861 by dissidens

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35 Comment from: lilrabbi [Visitor] Email
There is interest.
PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 10:05

Reply to comment 5862 by lilrabbi

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36 Comment from: de profundis [Visitor] Email
It looks like a fine mess I've gotten someone into!

PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 10:18

Reply to comment 5863 by de profundis

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37 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Nonono; not at all.

We really did give this some thought earlier (back with Dave), but so much of what we do here is linked to existing sites that there wasn't a pressing need for it.

I still don't know, given proprietary considerations, how big it will get, but I still like the idea.

If it presents any problems, I'll just set up another personal website.
PermalinkPermalink 01/13/09 @ 10:41

Reply to comment 5864 by dissidens

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38 Comment from: the divine passive [Visitor] Email
"This stuff is not inexpensive, it is unfit."

It's actually expensive: The revenue produced by much of this scrap is how Fundamentalist evangelists stay afloat. It keeps them in business in more way than one.
PermalinkPermalink 01/17/09 @ 12:44

Reply to comment 5892 by the divine passive

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39 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

That I can't speak to with precision. It would be interesting to see a spreadsheet for the business end of the "ministry".
PermalinkPermalink 01/17/09 @ 13:47

Reply to comment 5893 by dissidens

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40 Comment from: Rick [Visitor] Email
I sent your article to some of my friends to get their opinion on it. And they had a difficult time gaining much from what you said because they were so annoyed by your arrogant spirit in which you said it.
PermalinkPermalink 01/17/09 @ 15:33

Reply to comment 5894 by Rick

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41 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Yah, I get that a lot.
PermalinkPermalink 01/17/09 @ 16:43

Reply to comment 5895 by dissidens

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42 Comment from: luke [Visitor] Email
I stumbled across this discussion today in a search for something else. I read the post and all comments and was shocked by the fact that with all the "spiritual" sounding tinkling there was not 1 verse of scripture used to confirm any opinions. I must confess that I realize all my time spent reading this dribble was wasted as was yours when you wrote it.
PermalinkPermalink 08/26/09 @ 09:54

Reply to comment 6395 by luke

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43 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Well, thanks for sharing, Luke.

I’m just delighted you could make out all the words. If you’d like something less demanding on your time, I highly recommend this site.

http://www.barney.com/usa/index.asp

PermalinkPermalink 08/26/09 @ 13:09

Reply to comment 6396 by dissidens

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44 Comment from: luke [Visitor] Email
dissidens,

It is disheartening that your bitter pride is so obvious to others. Before you posted your reply I had already received an email thanking me for my (somewhat ill advised) comments. In the same message I was told to check back in to see what snarky remark you would make, since it happens every time someone calls you on the carpet.

I half expected you to attempt to excuse yourself for the blatant ignorance of Scripture, but instead you just dig your hole deeper by resorting to petty insults... cyber insults at that. I hope your pride is not soothed. I in all of Christ's love hope that you realize your faults and grow in Him. James 1:22-27 might be a more practical study for you. And look closely at verse 26. I hope it helps.

-"luke"



PermalinkPermalink 08/26/09 @ 20:08

Reply to comment 6398 by luke

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45 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Hello again, -"luke".

"Somewhat ill advised", you say!

If only that perception had occurred to you before 08/26/09 @ 09:54.

PermalinkPermalink 08/26/09 @ 20:45

Reply to comment 6399 by dissidens

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46 Comment from: the purple dinosaur [Visitor] Email
Hey, kidz! Barney sez, "Don't be like Dissidens when you grow up." Barney probably would not want me to use these "spellings" common among youth as they text and post on Facebook.

I knew "luke" was in for ridicule when he used "1" instead of “one.” Of course, Jesus and the Apostles did this. Oh wait, Barney says, "Jesus and the Apostles reserved their most searing rebukes and insults for enemies of the gospel."

Of course, we know that the Bible is on the side of those who write and speak well. Oh wait, Barney says, "God often raised up of those who did not speak well to be his spokesmen." Not all of God's prophets were like Isaiah. Moses was well trained, but he was not a good speaker. Barney says, "Be prepared for flying hayseeds if you read from the prophet who said, 'Prepare to meet thy God.'"

Some time ago, Dissidens wrote about the genius of the five solas compared to the intellectual bankruptcy of the emergent movement. It is an excellent and well thought out piece. However, Dissidens noted that the five solas were simple enough that sheep-pokers could understand them. Barney wonders, "Does Dissidens give two hoots about the sheep-pokers of the world?" Barney says, “Behold the intellectual dissonance of Remonstrans!”
PermalinkPermalink 08/27/09 @ 07:20

Reply to comment 6400 by the purple dinosaur

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47 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Well, Mr. Purple Dinosaur, when you made your first comment I was a little concerned that perhaps I had wasted my time. I mean I anticipated that it would go over a lot of heads, especially in the emergent community.

But now that I see the quality of your thoughts, I’m quite relieved. Clearly we both have enough time to write what we write.

Thanks for putting my mind at ease.


most cordially,

The Friend of Sheep-pokers.


PermalinkPermalink 08/27/09 @ 08:46

Reply to comment 6401 by dissidens

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