banner

Worth A Thousand Words

07/31/09

Permalink 06:00:00 am, by dissidens Email , 519 words, 577 views   English (US)
Categories: Old Main

Worth A Thousand Words

 

"The Bible doesn't forbid it."

I hate to pick on John Piper: everyone seems to have some reason to take pleasure in kicking him, but I mention this little confrontation in order to help you understand something about "culture", which, I am always pointing out, is not about tuxedos, opus numbers, the allure of the fugue, or wine & cheese with the artist after the concert. Culture is about what we believe and why. It is also about preserving what was once loved and knowing how that too is a good thing. The tuxedos, opus numbers, the allure of the fugue, and wine & cheese with the artist are just aids to understanding.

I agree with Piper as to the risk of the theater in the church, but anyone who has known me for any length of time knows that I disagree with him about why it should be opposed. And as I've said both in person and on the blog, this is no longer a battle to be fought. We ignored the wisdom of our parents and decided we were smart enough to "use this drug for medicinal purposes only".

Now we observe someone with a real care about preaching as he tries to explain to philistines why skits, video clips and drama are not "illustrations", as Matt Stephens supposes. They are in fact distractions.

Piper knows this because he understands preaching better than most; it is sad that he can't explain it to the yobbs at Christianity Today and its ADHD readership.

Again, I really don't want to reopen this whole anti-theater argument with unread and undiscriminating bumpkins. The Bible forbids an awful lot of things we'll never perceive as harmful until we stop being stupid. What I do want is for our readers to remember Ephraim Stoltzfus, the poor guy who shaves his upper lip every day but doesn't know why. You may argue that his church was misguided; I am prepared to argue they were being perceptive and that no small disobedience is trivial.

Obedience without understanding is good for children. It's rather sad in adults, and it's even worse for the children of those adults.

The Bible may well forbid many things we are indifferent toward. Our history is full of pious and discriminating saints who perceived a real danger in those things that distract us from spiritual matters. Piper is a discriminating saint trying to warn the blithering ignorant.

It is extremely difficult for fallen men to worship a holy God. You'd know this if you attended church anywhere. To allow distractions in a liturgy is just stupid.

It is beyond the ability of decadent post-Christians to recognize a distraction when they see one. Piper is right; it is tragic that he can't make them understand, but it is better that he be right than that he satisfy their adolescent curiosity.

View the YouTube clip and read the comments it provoked. This is a picture of a sensitive soul trying to warn us and a depiction of the rabble that resists what it cannot understand.

Trackback address for this post:

This is a captcha-picture. It is used to prevent mass-access by robots.

Please enter the characters from the image above. (case insensitive)

Comments, Trackbacks, Pingbacks:

1 Comment from: the divine passive [Visitor] Email
...in the short run.
PermalinkPermalink 07/31/09 @ 07:54

Reply to comment 6316 by the divine passive

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Yep; and hasn't that been a large part of the problem? Seeing everything in the short run.

I suspect we could begin to see a reform if we learned how to look at things in the long run.

PermalinkPermalink 07/31/09 @ 08:28

Reply to comment 6317 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Comment from: Joshua Allen [Visitor] Email
Funny, my pastor showed a 3 minute video clip of John Piper preaching in last Sunday's service, and I found it slightly distracting. It wasn't the typical clip of Piper just talking, but instead had a bunch of "artistic" surfer-inspired images and lots of jerky, glitchy movements and dramatic sound effect. This is rather new for our church, as the pastor is new and young.

FWIW, I think there is a danger in over-emphasizing the "understanding" component of obedience. I think it's very important to understand *some* of the reasons for obeying a certain edict, and for understanding *sufficient* reasons. But the danger is when people think that they understand *all* the reasons, because then they start seeing orthodoxy as little more than a self-help instruction book, and they feel that they are doing OK so long as they accomplish the intentions (as they understand the intentions) of the law without following the law exactly.

Also FWIW, I think there are deeper reasons for avoiding theater than just "distraction", although that's certainly a good enough one.
PermalinkPermalink 07/31/09 @ 16:17

Reply to comment 6318 by Joshua Allen

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Comment from: the divine passive [Visitor] Email
I happen to find Piper's preaching distracting because of his theatrical mannerisms. This distraction is independent of the distraction incurred music you have to sit through to get to it. I think he's more right than he could possibly imagine when he, after treading all over himself to seem nice, says "in the short run." It's as though the curtains had been pulled back for a second and he's had a glimpse of the ghosts of Billy Sunday and D. L. Moody toiling in purgatory for their crimes against humanity.
PermalinkPermalink 07/31/09 @ 21:14

Reply to comment 6319 by the divine passive

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Comment from: the divine passive [Visitor] Email
Between "incurred" and "music" there ought to be a preposition and a definite article. The reader may choose one of each that best aids his understanding.
PermalinkPermalink 07/31/09 @ 21:17

Reply to comment 6320 by the divine passive

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Josh:

First, I agree there is more—far more—to object to in the theater than its distractions. I think the best grounds for its rejection can be found in men like Augustine and Pascal and Beecher and Tozer. I consider theirs the most apt arguments and most compelling voices.

But my point in this post was not to argue against the theater so much as to show Piper’s reaction. The Out of Ur commenters remind us that no rational argument will compel dolts. I hoped that in considering this our readers will begin to get a sense of our predicament: if one doesn’t understand Augustine, Pascal, inter alios, one is left with the perceptions of someone like Piper who does know enough to sense the incompatibility of drama and preaching. (And I really do think it is heroic that Piper can see what fundamentalists and evangelicals can’t.) But he cannot “fix” the problem, and he’s also aware of the present state of affairs: a) he knows when he is gone, others will do what they want, and b) he knows he’s not fairly representing what it is the Bible forbids. This used to be important to us.

These are two important concessions. I admire him for his sensibilities and commend him for speaking his mind, but we must recognize how weak a position he finds himself.

Secondly, I disagree somewhat with your first issue. It is valid to a point: if we are commanded not to seethe a kid in its mother’s milk, it really doesn’t matter whether we understand the reasoning behind it or not. To that extent I agree with you.

But as in my illustration, if the church feels compelled to forbid mustaches, say, or if it imposes any other inferred proscription, it is only right that our consciences be informed. The highest good here, the thing that is desired, is that what we do is done in faith, which is what Paul makes the ultimate test. An uninformed conscience really cannot live by Romans 14. Poor Ephraim Stolzfus is—admirably—willing to “obey the rules”, but he is not living the life of faith that Paul taught us to live.

I believe this is worth our reflection: fundamentalists and evangelicals have left us the task of reworking our understanding of separation. Fundamentalists made a joke of separation from the world and neo-evangelicals pilloried it.

As with our liturgy, I think we must do some principled thinking here.


PermalinkPermalink 07/31/09 @ 21:33

Reply to comment 6321 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Comment from: regulative [Visitor] Email
I think Piper knows that his same argument against the videos would eradicate the entertainment before the preaching that his group calls worship.
PermalinkPermalink 08/01/09 @ 00:38

Reply to comment 6322 by regulative

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

regulative:

I can’t be certain, but I suspect that’s not true. I never met Piper, never talked to him about it, and never attended his church; the only word I have is a negative report from various fundamentalists.

On the one hand it would seem obvious to those of us who’ve had experience with fundamentalism that his worship is not satisfactory to them. On the other hand, I know oodles of fundamentalists who have absolutely no sensitivity to the entertainment qualities of their own “worship”. [Pettit, Hamilton...]

One of our problems is that we don’t even share a common understanding of what constitutes entertainment. It is entirely possible that because of one’s upbringing, one might perceive a greater distraction in drama than from worship choruses.
PermalinkPermalink 08/01/09 @ 02:57

Reply to comment 6323 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
9 Comment from: Joshua Allen [Visitor] Email
OK, I see your point, and agree wholeheartedly in the cases where men within the church are making new regulations. I was thinking more of the case of someone questioning, for example, why we celebrate the Eucharist, or why we restrict it to Christians.

And FWIW, I recently read Piper's "Don't Waste Your Life", and found it to be really good. And I enjoy most of his sermons that I have watched online. He does have a particular style of delivery, which could be a turn-off to some, but no more than many of the great revivalists. The video I mentioned was the first I had seen like that from Piper, so I wasn't intending to claim a pattern.

What really makes me sad about videos like the one I mentioned, is the fact of Christians trying to ape popular culture. People like this always come to the party years late and look even stupider than if they hadn't tried. It's doubly sad, because popular culture is, and always has been, a depraved distortion of Christianity.
PermalinkPermalink 08/01/09 @ 09:57

Reply to comment 6324 by Joshua Allen

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
10 Comment from: regulative [Visitor] Email
I think some professing fundamentalists can judge this according to a scriptural understanding and not according to fundamentalist code.
PermalinkPermalink 08/01/09 @ 10:13

Reply to comment 6325 by regulative

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

regulative:

Yah, I heard that rumor too.
PermalinkPermalink 08/01/09 @ 10:29

Reply to comment 6326 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Josh:

What really makes me sad about videos like the one I mentioned, is the fact of Christians trying to ape popular culture. People like this always come to the party years late and look even stupider than if they hadn't tried. It's doubly sad, because popular culture is, and always has been, a depraved distortion of Christianity.
But this is a good thing!

People being drawn toward God will recognize pop culture for what it is: a warning label. NOTHING TO SEE HERE!

Now all we need are evangelists who can produce something real.
PermalinkPermalink 08/01/09 @ 11:07

Reply to comment 6327 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leave a comment:

Your email address will not be displayed on this site.
Your URL will be displayed.

Allowed XHTML tags: <p, ul, ol, li, dl, dt, dd, address, blockquote, ins, del, span, bdo, br, em, strong, dfn, code, samp, kdb, var, cite, abbr, acronym, q, sub, sup, tt, i, b, big, small, a>
(Line breaks become <br />)
(Set cookies for name, email and url)
(Allow users to contact you through a message form (your email will NOT be displayed.))
This is a captcha-picture. It is used to prevent mass-access by robots.

Please enter the characters from the image above. (case insensitive)

Remonstrans

March 2010
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
 << <   > >>
  1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31    

Archives

Search

Categories

XML Feeds

What is RSS?

Who's Online?

  • Guest Users: 27

powered by
b2evolution