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Committed To What?

10/05/09

Permalink 06:04:10 am, by dissidens Email , 551 words, 571 views   English (US)
Categories: Old Main

Committed To What?

Emergents have recently floated some rumors suggesting the possibility of having meetings on restarting the non-bureaucratic machinery of their undenomination; their great conversation as ebbed and their great experiment in decentralization has produced some underwhelming results, and they think that barbecuing some people might rekindle an interest in their religious commotion.

Time will tell.

Fundamentalists continue their riveting debate on what a fundamentalist was, what a fundamentalist is, and what a fundamentalist should look like. We wish them the best of luck with that.

And up in Chicago's suburbs, Mark Galli bangs his head against a wall and speaks about what it means to be an evangelical:

Some use strict definitions that include a complex set of beliefs and behaviors, and so define evangelicals as a step above the ordinary mortal. Others use loose definitions in which the word seems to mean nothing more than "nice religious person." Evangelicals by these definitions fare pretty badly when compared with the rest of the world.

In this article, I lean toward the looser definition. We might feel better about ourselves as a movement if we restrict the word to the most committed-that would eliminate the problem of nominalism anyway.

(I think referring to evangelicals as those who hold to "a complex set of beliefs and behaviors" was intended to be vicious sarcasm. The one thing we know is that evangelicals do not entertain complex beliefs, and no one thinks of an evangelical as "a step above the ordinary mortal".)

I can't predict what will make evangelicals feel better about themselves, but I would feel better about evangelicals if they could tell us what it is they believe, not how committed they are to it.

You may remember Mark Galli. He wrote this about evangelicals:

In this sense, the history of the Christian faith is littered with evangelicals, from the apostle Paul to Antony of the Desert, from Francis of Assisi to Teresa of Avila, from the monastic movement to camp meetings, from Beth Moore to Mimi Haddad, from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association to Evangelicals for Social Action.

In the current article Galli takes the typical CT approach:  he throws together a collection of blurbs, casual summaries, glib stereotypes and superficial characterizations, pretends that doing this constitutes historical research and then he pontificates vapidly. In this case he pontificates about the need for having "a vertical relationship with God". He has nothing at all helpful to say about what it means to have a vertical relationship with God—and a few of his readers have noticed this. Having a vertical relationship with God is just one more empty metaphor by which he can continue misapprehending and misrepresenting the faith.

Imagine going to The Great Hall of Evangelicalism to sign up only to be told by some drooling clerk that it is irrelevant what you believe; whatever it is you believe, your application has been denied because you lack sufficient commitment.

I think it is worth your reading Mark Galli: clearly he has no answers, but if you want to catch some sense of the spirit of the age, this should do the trick. If you want to get a feel for the modern evangelical's intellectual incapacities, Galli is your man.

Ignorant armies clashing by night.

 

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1 Comment from: Thomas Dawkins [Visitor] Email
Interesting post illuminating the inferiority of this man and his beliefs to yourself and your beliefs. Your rhetoric is numbing and has hidden anything useful that could have been taken from whatever your implied superior alternative system may be, which positions the whole writing to seem like a vicious pointless attack on a group you have bitter feelings toward. Immediately Scripture comes to mind "Now concerning things offered to idols: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies." What is our purpose if we truly are the redeemed of Christ? Are we to glorify ourselves or even our sect, or school of knowledge or even the one who baptized us? 1 Corinthians 3. Or from what root does the word evangelical derive its name? Or should we not have as our primary purpose to bring the glory whom it is due? Is not the cross the fullness of the glory of God and by obeying the command in 28:19 are we not most capable of bring bringing glory to our God and Savior? Or is it by, as the Corinthian church of the time of Paul, showing how much knowledge we have obtained yet while missing the point? Love is the point God is love... and as One who I love has stated "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends." It is Christ's love that has brought salvation, and in honor of Him we shall also lay down our lives for one another. Its all about Christ. Now you have an extraordinary talent for writing but, and truly this is from love, it glorifies you rather that the creator who is blessed forever amen.
PermalinkPermalink 10/07/09 @ 17:07

Reply to comment 6463 by Thomas Dawkins

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2 Comment from: Unk [Visitor] Email
Another one! I don't believe it. They always sound the same. Truly, the world is hosed.
PermalinkPermalink 10/07/09 @ 18:50

Reply to comment 6464 by Unk

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3 Comment from: Thomas Dawkins [Visitor] Email
Truly that comment typifies the title theme of the original post if anything. "Communicating to what purpose?" I read the condescending words but was unable to draw out, without excessive speculation, anything useful, and what I am able to learn is that there is no point to the comment other than a roughshod shot at a jab at me. No response. Maybe I misunderstand the purpose of the website here and it truly is for the entertainment of the maintainers and subscribers and has no benefit to the objective. Your purpose, if to exalt yourself through you writing here, is misplaced. Consider Him who did not consider eqaulity with God a thing to be grasped... but what did He do? He laid down His life for anyone who would believe. Who has believed our report?
PermalinkPermalink 10/07/09 @ 20:06

Reply to comment 6465 by Thomas Dawkins

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4 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Thomas:

I can tell from the way you write that you are not a great reader, but your prose was not my first clue. My initial clue came from your first sentence which reveals that you are not even a competent reader.

Nothing in this entire post can be construed as a comparison of Mark Galli’s views and mine.

Nothing.

Galli’s views are defective not because they differ from my views but because they are stupid. His views are not just theologically inept or historically invalid or intellectually challenged; they are just stupid. His definitions—strict or loose—are gross mischaracterizations. They are caricatures. If a kid submitted a paper like this to his ninth-grade composition teacher, he’d have gotten an F.
“We might feel better about ourselves as a movement if we restrict the word [Evangelicalism] to the most committed-that would eliminate the problem of nominalism anyway.”
Imagine someone writing a statement like that about any other movement, political association or school of thought.
We might feel better about ourselves as a movement if we restrict the word [Expressionism] to the most committed-that would eliminate the problem of nominalism anyway.

We might feel better about ourselves as a movement if we restrict the word [Republicanism] to the most committed-that would eliminate the problem of nominalism anyway.

We might feel better about ourselves as a movement if we restrict the word [Darwinism] to the most committed-that would eliminate the problem of nominalism anyway.

This is lunacy. This is check-in-at-the-front-desk-and-surrender-your-shoelaces insanity.

I cannot claim to have struggled heroically to hide all my beliefs, but from day one on this blog we have attempted to critique our religious culture not by my own beliefs but by the historical record. Mark Galli is a dabbler and a rube who can’t even honestly define a movement.

No one cares if these people have failed me; it ought to be important to them that they have failed themselves.

And that has been the general point of recent posts. If I were an unbeliever today, there is no way I would become a believer tomorrow. All these movements: fundamentalist, emerging church, evangelical, all are unable and unwilling to define the simplest things. If I wanted to become a fundamentalist I would have to choose which definition to adopt because fundamentalists aren’t agreed.

If I wanted to join emergence I would first have to deal with clowns like Tony Jones who at first refused to define it, called it an ethos, and now admits that opponents, “having outflanked us, they defined us”. Brilliant, Mr. National Coordinator! Job very well done.

Then there are the evangelicals who cannot define their movement either. The senior managing editor of the “magazine of evangelical conviction” says evangelicals would feel better about themselves if they restricted the word to “the most committed”.

Tell me this is not insane, and tell me this is not how the world ends: not with a bang but a whimper.


PermalinkPermalink 10/07/09 @ 20:27

Reply to comment 6466 by dissidens

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5 Comment from: Thomas Dawkins [Visitor] Email
Bravo! I appreciate your articulate post in all sincerity. Also I must commend you on your analysis of me, in particular that I am not a great reader, although I wish I was.
I can sympathize with your frustration and you should know that I am no proponent of Mark Galli or any other proprietor of any so called religious movement. Neither can I say I stand against him to do so would be presumptuous on my part.
What I am is a fanatical believer in the power, as foolish as it may appear, of the Gospel of Christ. Remember Romans 1:16-17 my friend, the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes. It is not, nor has it ever been, a system of man or an organization of rituals. We, if we are truly redeemed, should know best of all that our folly and foolishness can do nothing to hinder God from administering His grace toward us in salvation in His Son. We are the sinners who God has, by His grace, saved without regard for our unwillingness to be saved. If you were an unbeliever today would you not believe? I contend that you would believe today, in spite of the folly of men, because of what Christ did on the cross, the amazing act of love and grace toward you and I, and isn't this the overwhelmingly singular answer we should cing to? We know that there is only one way to the Father and it is not anyones organization or religion it is Christ alone. If your zeal is for God's glory I sympathize with you in your pain seeing people choose to exalt themselves or anything else above God, but let us not forget we are guilty of the same. All have sinned... We know how the world will truly end (1 Peter 3:10-12) and what what people will be like (2 Timothy 3:2-5), what they will want to hear (2 Timothy 4:3-4). But as for us, if we indeed have zeal in accordance with knowledge let us bring the most glory to God whether we eat or drink, by life of by death. Let us proclaim the Gospel of God's grace manifest in His Son on the Cross of Calvary! Thanks my friend.
PermalinkPermalink 10/07/09 @ 23:39

Reply to comment 6467 by Thomas Dawkins

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6 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

I think you still don’t understand my main point. If we woke up and found that all of our cars didn’t work, it wouldn’t take us years to figure it out: we use them daily.

Christianity Today calls itself a “magazine of evangelical conviction”. We all must know that this is a joke; Christianity Today is a “catalog of religious novelties”. How do we not know this? and why can we not admit this?

Contemporary Christianity is a collection of idiocies, a few promises that offer solace as we grieve over our dead goldfish, a pick-me-up when we need to try harder and a few songs that are fun to listen to. It is not a working faith.

I think in addition to all those verses you quote to me you should read Luke 11. We have asked for an egg and we have been given a scorpion. Jesus himself was not a fanatical believer in the power of the Gospel. He was an irritating critic of men who were given keys but never used them. In fact they kept an entrance locked against others.

I cannot think of a better characterization of American Christianity.

Pretending to be hopeful about a thing we can’t even define.
PermalinkPermalink 10/08/09 @ 06:17

Reply to comment 6468 by dissidens

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7 Comment from: Thomas Dawkins [Visitor] Email
Thanks for that clarification. I am sure that I do understand your frustration and disgust, and I as part of the church, sympathize with your sadness at the continuing fulfillment of the coming of false teachers into the world. But are we to be surprised? We ought not to be since the Scriptures are filled with warnings about and definitions of who they will be and what they will do. We know that not everyone who considers himself a "Christian" is considered one by the Christ right? Matthew 7:23... Fundamentally a Christian, disciple of Christ, today has the same teacher as the Christian has (yes present tense) 2000 years ago, if not then... well can we say that the term doesn't truly apply.

I may be missing your point in regards to Luke 11 since in context it is speaking of the faithfulness of the Father to answer prayer. Not only to answer it, but also that whatever the answer is that it will be good rather than bad regardless of how we may perceive it (cf. Romans 8:28-30). I cannot perceive that God has somehow failed us since He is unchanging and His Words are true.

Also I must disagree with you on the point that Jesus was not fanatical believer in the Gospel. His life was the Gospel, repentant and believe for it is the only way. How else could He have allowed His life to be taken for the sake of hostile sinners such as ourselves? The Gospel is the glory of God "In love he predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, to the praise of the glory of His grace which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved" Christ as a man was obedient to the point death, even death on a cross. Why? For the salvation of sinners, for the gospel.
Yes Christ showed the Father, even the Fathers hatred of sin, yet He did not execute justice for sin, instead He personally paid the price for all who would believe, what greater act of love? And he was irritating to the sinner, and as the law He made sin known, but He did not do this with a motive to irritate but a motive to cause repentance. Now who has the keys? 2 Corinthians 2:15-17 Who is adequate? Well it is us brother and as our God and Savior commanded we must persist even in the face of adversity to bring the Gospel to the lost for the glory of God, for He will be with us.

Thank you for your website listing some of the beliefs of the lead astray, I hope it will allow many to be lead to the true Gospel of Christ to the glory of God.
PermalinkPermalink 10/09/09 @ 17:25

Reply to comment 6471 by Thomas Dawkins

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8 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Thanks for your kind words.
PermalinkPermalink 10/09/09 @ 19:32

Reply to comment 6472 by dissidens

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