banner

A Question Of Values

11/09/09

Permalink 05:27:27 am, by dissidens Email , 485 words, 503 views   English (US)
Categories: Old Main

A Question Of Values

 

A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.

--- King Solomon

If I were to tell you to listen to this—and I will definitely tell you to listen to this—you might well put your mousepointer over the linktext, look down at your status bar and think to yourself, "Oh, great, not another hieratic lullaby from the Central Sleep Clinic". Thinking that would be a mistake: go and listen.

Listen to all three addresses by Robert Delnay; even if you have a profound religious commitment to halfway measures, then at least listen to the last of the three.

There is a lowering mist, a morbid cloud, hovering among the ruins of fundamentalism, and the reflex of many has been to huddle up and pretend the problem is one of definition: perhaps one more mighty wind from the platform will blow it away. If we suppose that the world has forgotten what a fundamentalist is, then perhaps we can solve the problem with more bafflegab.

What could one more lecture hurt, right?

But if the problem is not just a misunderstanding of fundamentalism or separation, then more lectures will not help. If fundamentalism has lost its good name, then it needs to inquire as to how that happened. If future usefulness is a problem, then saluting the cap one more time is not a solution. And if you've lost your young people, then your day has well and truly ended. You have enjoyed the book so far, the protagonists have been captivating, the plot has been riveting, but as the fingers of your right hand fan through the few remaining pages you begin to suspect that things cannot end well. There is not nearly enough space left for things to end with a bang, and there is barely enough space for things to end with a satisfying whimper.

Those of us who have suggested this was the case have been dismissed as being too conspicuously celebratory. In my case, I don't care. In the case of others, I'll let them find their own words to describe this last, pitiable self-justification.

What you will not do, I guarantee, is dismiss Delnay's thoughts as party chat.

For those of you still dubious or ambivalent about all this last-minute scrambling for identity, bear in mind one thing: Delnay sees no solution in Evangelicalism or Conservative Evangelicalism or Emergence or any other death gurgle within earshot. He is not motivated by anything so small as the loss of the young to Dever, Piper, MacArthur, Mohler.... If what he says about fundamentalism is true, then the solution belongs to those willing to learn from history and act rationally.

Think about what he says. I know the man well enough to know when he is amused and when he is not.

Take it from me; I've seen him much happier.

Trackback address for this post:

This is a captcha-picture. It is used to prevent mass-access by robots.

Please enter the characters from the image above. (case insensitive)

Comments, Trackbacks, Pingbacks:

1 Comment from: the divine passive [Visitor] Email
"This side has its problems, but it's still the right side."
PermalinkPermalink 11/09/09 @ 21:10

Reply to comment 6556 by the divine passive

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

dp:

And there, I think, is the insuperable problem for fundamentalists.

For some of us, separatism is a virtue and a duty. It didn’t begin in the 1920s, it goes back to the 1560s and the 1520s and back to the stern instruction of the Apostles. The historical moment for separatists in the 1920s must be understood for what it was.

Was it the right side (of the two presented for our consideration)? Absolutely.

Was it the right side since corrupted beyond recognition? Obviously.

Inasmuch as the pulpit and altar were corrupted to such a degree that those things Delnay laments have become the sine qua non of separatism, it is no longer the right side.

I think the place to start is with those things Delnay cites: a recognition of the profound misconduct of its leaders. They were not, as we can now see, just the organizational heads of a movement, they were its models and paragons. Seminarians and collegians aspired to their example. We can’t pare the culprits down to five egotists and a few too many scandals and wrap things up with a neat little “get over it”. If we want to say that Graham and Ockenga set a tone of indifference for neo-evangelicalism the results of which we now see in Christianity Today, then that stick has to have a point on both ends.

When it came to those baleful temptations Delnay cites [i.e. entertainment and music], he’s precisely correct when he says “We didn’t have the answers” and “…what reasons did we have to offer them?” and “we had our heads in the sand” and "we are not reflective".

We cannot leave our young people in the same predicament Delnay’s pastor left him with respect to the documentary hypothesis.

That, in my view, can no longer be recognized as “the right side” of anything.
PermalinkPermalink 11/10/09 @ 06:52

Reply to comment 6557 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Comment from: the divine passive [Visitor] Email
I hope, in 10 years, to find a few churches here and there where the hymn books have tear stains on "Ah, Holy Jesus" and the pastor knows more about the inside of his closet than he knows of the NFL. We've enjoyed quite enough of the leadership of barbarians who, when there are no enemies to claw and yawp at, turn on their congregations. I wonder where good men will train in 10 years though...
PermalinkPermalink 11/10/09 @ 19:18

Reply to comment 6560 by the divine passive

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Well, I can’t know the future and I can’t anticipate what the Holy Spirit might graciously do, but my personal conclusion is that our institutions will continue to fail us. It’s not that they are determined to fail; it just seems that way because they don’t understand what success requires.

The sheep are not going to lead the shepherds, and the shepherds will never change anything until they become sensitive to the fact that Herzliebster Jesu belongs in that hymnbook and Calvary’s Blood does not. Then they will have to offer intellectual reasons to the pew-warmers who have a feudal loyalty to Calvary’s Blood. Then they will have to have the intelligence and independence of mind to fight the system.

Our institutions are not preparing aesthetically sensitive minds, intellectually disciplined minds or politically independent minds. Underlying many of Delnay’s observations is the realization that we’ve already failed at these points.

But that’s just my view, and I’ll bet it’s not an approved view at Soundfroth.

My working assumption is that good men will train at home.
PermalinkPermalink 11/10/09 @ 20:10

Reply to comment 6561 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Comment from: BLT [Visitor]
We have failed like parents in the Roman Empire who chose the wrong paedagogus.

"The infant is entrusted to a Greek slave-girl, who takes the place of some elderly and trusted member of the family under the old system; she fills its mind with silly stories and mistaken notions, and teaches incorrect modes of speech which later must be unlearnt. . . . whenever a slave turns out to be a drunkard, a glutton, worthless for every good purpose, he is converted into a paedagogus. . . . Other parents . . . deliberately buy the cheapest slaves they can, in their hunt for ignorance at a bargain price, and show surprise when the morals of their children leave much to be desired. And, even apart from morals, says Quintilian, the teaching which the paedagogus gives is often bad; he should have had a thorough education or he should know that he knows nothing. There is none worse than the tutor who believes that he possesses real knowledge when he has hardly left the alphabet behind. He thinks he has a title to power, and becomes imperious or brutal in teaching his own unsound knowledge."

from Slavery in the Roman Empire by R. H. Barrow p. 40-41.
PermalinkPermalink 11/11/09 @ 07:12

Reply to comment 6562 by BLT

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Isn’t that the ugly truth?

Let’s think about this for a minute. Here was the richest intellectual heritage the world has ever seen with universities like Aberdeen, Basel, Cambridge, Glasgow, Heidelberg, Leipzig , Oxford, Paris, Prague, Tübingen…. And unable to retain this patrimony Fundamentalists fractured into umpteen little fiefdoms with substandard colleges and universities lead by idiosyncratic and capricious chieftains. A thousand Christian day schools sprang up in order to produce marginal athletes, culotted cheerleaders and sports banquets.

What music there was was informed by the entertainment world and never by Monteverdi, Bach, Mendelssohn, Brahms, Franck, Dvorák, Rachmaninoff or Pärt. Instead they got the Hamiltons, Garlocks, LeShannon Hyder, Jon Ensminger, Steve Pettit, Faye Lopez, Gina Sprunger…and a total inability to keep kids away from rock-n-roll and out of the movies.

In fact they instituted their own meager cinematic culture!

They did have the foresight, though, to keep women out of the seminaries so a future clergy could come to college in need of remedial English and beginners’ classes in the languages of their scriptures. This was preferable to the risk of getting women preachers—which they got anyway. So much for the exalted, biblical estimation of motherhood.

Yes, I’d say they chose the wrong paedogogus with about as much flair as we could expect without government assistance. We should just be grateful they didn't get "worldly"!
PermalinkPermalink 11/11/09 @ 09:23

Reply to comment 6563 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
7 Comment from: exlibris [Visitor] Email
Ah, yes!

Colleges the rank up there with the best high schools.

Just to quote one of our early critics.

Their prophylaxis for worldliness was general ignorance of everything but worldliness.
PermalinkPermalink 11/12/09 @ 09:17

Reply to comment 6564 by exlibris

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 Comment from: dissidens [Member] Email

Odd that a movement which kept telling everyone it was separated from the world seems not to have scrimped on lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

I’ll bet that story could be turned into a feature film.
PermalinkPermalink 11/12/09 @ 11:11

Reply to comment 6565 by dissidens

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leave a comment:

Your email address will not be displayed on this site.
Your URL will be displayed.

Allowed XHTML tags: <p, ul, ol, li, dl, dt, dd, address, blockquote, ins, del, span, bdo, br, em, strong, dfn, code, samp, kdb, var, cite, abbr, acronym, q, sub, sup, tt, i, b, big, small, a>
(Line breaks become <br />)
(Set cookies for name, email and url)
(Allow users to contact you through a message form (your email will NOT be displayed.))
This is a captcha-picture. It is used to prevent mass-access by robots.

Please enter the characters from the image above. (case insensitive)

Remonstrans

February 2010
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
 << <   > >>
  1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28            

Archives

Search

Categories

XML Feeds

What is RSS?

Who's Online?

  • Guest Users: 18

powered by
b2evolution