Ignoring most of the utter stupidity that is spouting forth in this article I will point out that if you are going to insult "the state of Emergent literacy" you really should spell-check your insults about someone exploring a God given creativity as she "make some pomes"... its quite sad really.

The spectrum of comments on McKnight's review is instructive. From the petulant "Why is anyone still reading McLaren?" to "Your so predictible, your always taring down Emergant, you dont' get it, and my master's degree is printed on wax paper."

I wonder if it's also instructive that McKnight is coming to these conclusions after the lukewarm reception of his "robust gospel" which also gets its mandate from CNN but attempts to retain some evangelical forms.

http://www.christianvisionproject.com/2008/03/the_8_marks_of_a_robust_gospel.html

Lurch:

"Pomes" [sic] is--and has been--my term of art for these childish endeavors. (cf. http://remonstrans.net/index.php/2009/07/17/infinite_ignorance) It is an alternative spelling I've used repeatedly to stress on our readers the huge differences between what these people do and what Chaucer, Shakespeare, Milton and Keats have done to good effect.

But thanks for bringing your keen discernment to the issues, Lurch.

Thanks for the link love to Adele's poetry.
Here's to hoping your link will lead to more people being impacted by her art and writing.
Adele's become a dear friend and I've grown to truly appreciate her voice of love for all -- as well as her voice of God's love to all in her sphere's of influence.
I love that she feels strong enough in her faith to share her struggles and even her doubts.
May you be blessed in all you do and may God's love and grace shine through each of you!

Love you guys!

This post is just mean spirited... your site does encapsulate the spirit of this age... mean, merciless, graceless, and godless, but you sure are religious...

Oh two things, your grammar is atrocious and your punctuation is worse! Also, have no grasp of poetry, as well you seem to not even know that pome is a word and you are grossly misusing it even if you are mocking others out of total ignorance.

dp:

Yes, I was curious to see what CT would have to say. McLaren himself warned us to look for it: http://www.brianmclaren.net/archives/blog/stay-tuned.html.

Everything about this movement is instructive; it’s only the failing students who ignore it.



Jonathan:

Yes, she certainly has sphere’s of influence; just sphere’s and sphere’s of it.

And obviously I join you in hoping more people get a chance to savor her “voice of love”: I think Christendom will benefit from exposure to the fragrance of Emergence. That’s one reason I linked to her loving rants.

And thanks for lighting that candle, iggy.

Where's the love of Christ in what you share, dissidens?

You beat me to it William!

14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

Colossians 3:14 (New International Version - UK)

PS - who does this blog represent?

Lol

William and John:

If I told you, you would not believe me.

Do any of you by any chance own a Bible?

Well, I guess you've been told! And by no less a personage than iggy. Don't you feel blessed?

Can any man know my pain?

The man who wrote this:

Contact me My Values and Beliefs I head up a discussion group called wordofmouthdiscussions I also run iggyROCKS! Christian Radio live365 I am a husband of 25 years to TES and the daddy to two beautiful children, Fischer 5 and Ciana 4. My wife and I attend the Billings Vineyard Church. This blog is not related to Vineyard Church. The views expressed on this blog are mine. Mostly I am a lover of Jesus Christ.

takes exception to my grammar and punctuation!

Truly I feel ashamed.

Actually, I own a few Bibles, and I read them as well.

What exactly would I not believe and what makes you so sure that I wouldn't believe?

William:

Truly this is a wonder to behold! I marvel greatly.

Hast thou not read these Bibles? Look thou up Luke 11 (or Matt 23) and read thou unto thyself quietly the words which Jesus saith unto the Pharisees, and, if thou canst tell, perceivest therein the love of Jesus?

Or suppose ye that this is another Jesus who speaketh?

Mr David Powell (aka Dissidens),

If you know as much about Theology as you purport, I'm surprised that you're so negative about the way that God uses imperfect people to spread his message of love for ALL.

Having had a quick look through your site, it's clear that you have little hope for the future and your heart is dark enough to choose to live your life through spreading negativity about others, whilst hiding behind a thin screen of supposed anonymity.

You'll no doubt be surprised that I'm not going to promote links to your site, or try and get any of my friends to comment.

I defend your right to free speech, but I'm not about to try and give your site any un-necessary promotion as you would no doubt count additional comments as a victory for your views.

The iron has already been flying, the wheels catapulting this way and that, the cars hurtle forward in grotesque zigzag shapes, the engineers are bickering hopefully/helplessly on whether they are leading or leaving a movement, and the passengers are attempting to take on the Emergent train's critics, even as the wreckage piles up. In reading many of the local comments from the passengers of this train wreck, one might say that Dissiden's task of responding to their remarks here is like "shooting pomes in a barrel." (Ok it is a mixed metaphor, but it was fun--and probably allowable based on the poetry being championed by the passengers...)

If you are going to use an archaic version of the English tongue to mock me at least learn the proper usage of the words you use, otherwise much of what you say will sound to me like a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Shakespeare knew how to write like this, you don't. I would say stick to writing what you know, but in reading your site it's quite evident that you're not very good at that either.

William:

Methinks thou hast not read the passages set before thee.

Enough with the ye olde english, if you are going to try and be witty and rebutt someones comment at least do it with some class and style, frankly all you are doing is making yourself look like the fool.

(PS... thanks for the 'pomes' info hadn't heard of that insult before, it seemed too much akin to lol-speak for me to even think someone who allegedly enjoys good literacy to use... cheers)

Billy-Bob Jim Bob:

Oy, vey; where to begin.

My name is not David Powell. David Powell is deceased. My name is Norm Weiss. I have stated this explicitly on more than one occasion; I’m sorry (but not a bit surprised) that your sleuthing failed to uncover it. When this blog began, the nick dissidens preserved an identity from an earlier internet presence. To this day the nick describes more than my real name does. So I keep it. But I’ve explained this all before to less tiresome people than you, and it is as unimportant now as it was then. So I’ll move on.

Your second paragraph is even more misguided and uninformed than your first. You were mistaken about my identity and you’re mistaken about my hope. I have great hope for the future, it’s just that my hope is not your hope. The difference between the two might be inferred from what I’ve written—so it will remain a perpetual mystery to you I’m sure.

I can live with that.

Words cannot express the sorrow I feel knowing that you will not promote our blog. I’m thinking perhaps a long cello piece marked doloroso et calando would better convey my disappointment, but even that seems inadequate. Maybe the groaning of the damned.

But thanks for defending my right to free speech; that really cheered me up.

I think that you only hear what you want to hear.

I have read these passages and it disturbs me that you compare your behaviour to the behaviour of Jesus.

Lurch:

And thanks for sharing your wordclots as well.

Very amusing.

William:

You’re losing focus here.

You began by suggesting I lacked the love of Christ. I pointed to a couple of examples of how the Christ actually behaved, then I asked you if this was the same Christ you have in mind. Now you make it sound like I’ve compared myself to him.

Let’s try to solve one problem at a time, ok? Just for the sake of the Emergents dropping in who aren’t as sharp as you.

Do the passages I cited describe the sort of Christ-like behavior you could approve of?

Sam:

Check the boxcars in the back of the train and see if there is anything worth salvaging.

Brief answer: Christ's behaviour is always Christlike. How could it be anything else?

As for yourself - I really don't know you, so I won't comment other than if it reflects the writings and thoughts shared here then I'd draw the conclusion that it does not always look like a demonstration of the love and grace displayed in Christ.

One other comment: you seem to call everyone who disagrees with you 'Emergent'. Why is that? Did I ever say to you that I was or wasn't 'Emergent'?

We could spend all day going back and forth like this and I'm sure you'd enjoy sharing the wealth of your knowledge, putting me down or setting me right. However, I have a life to get on with. So, I'm off to enjoy it whilst I still can.

Whoa, that got exciting in a hurry! So predictable!

Is that patchouli I smell?

William:

Yah, that’s kinda been my view as well: if Jesus did it, it was Christ-like.

I never said you were Emergent; not even after reading your blogroll. All who read Remonstrans will know that I’m well aware of the fact that not only Emergents are silly people.

But I understand your desire to get on with your life.

dp:

Yah, I've been sitting here cross-legged all day trying to be all things to all men.

Stretching out in bed is going to feel good tonight.

"less tiresome people than you"

Wow, THAT was a low blow.

I think you've learned your lesson from this hornet's nest you've stirred up-don't bring up "Baptists" again!

dissidens...

First, let me thank you for linking to Adele's poetry and to her blog which continues to be a place where people can come and discuss their theology, feelings, and share their experiences freely.

Pity though, that your blog is not the same kind of publication. The three paragraphs that I am commenting on are self-indulgent, petulant, and small-minded and, perhaps, tinged with a little jealousy at Adele's ability and courage to vulnerably express her heart through creative means.

Whatever your motivation is--I don't really care. What I do care about is that you are so engulfed in your own sense of self-importance that you would hail your blog as some kind of "beacon of truth" to preserve the last remaining certitudes of your faith--and then stoop to name calling and literary criticism (which I am QUITE sure you are not qualified to do).

Anyway--way to give those who view Christians as arrogant and judgmental yet ANOTHER excuse to hate.

Apryl P.

Jim W:

Yah! How lame was that?! A violent people, those Baptists.


Apryl P:

First, I’m glad I could help. I may send more people over to get a taste of Adele’s giftedness in the future. We’ll watch to see how her genius matures. You’ll keep your fingers crossed, won’t you?

Who knows, people might start setting aside their Christina Rossetti and begin picking up their Adele Sakler. Wouldn’t that be a great day for women courageous and vulnerable enough to express their hearts through creative means?

And please let me know if you are aware of any other suicidal perverts and profane doggerelists who have the courage and vulnerability to express their hearts through creative means. Right now we’re on the lookout for links to people like Adele, especially people who consider themselves spokespersons for Emergence and who can articulate such an exquisite religious sensibility. It is this view of the life of the spirit that needs the widest possible exposure if religion is to be saved.

I feel, anyway.

Apryl

And thus the greatness of past history, literature, art, poetry, and liturgy is scorned by the dribble that comes from the mouths of those posting their thoughts and poetry online.

Not every opinion is good, and not every opinion should be counted equally. Not every poem is worth reading, and not every idea is worth trying. Some thought, simply put, are just not worth posting online.

LOL! Sadly, if you cut and paste it from the profile, it does not accurately come across as it is on the blog. There is no grammatical errors as "iggyROCKS!" is what the station is called... likewise, there are links that are not coming across... so... fail!

But nice try... and rather sad that is all you can come up with.

The point was lost on you though...

Jesus came to be the Dr of the sick... and if I understand you hate speech above, you seem to think Adel is not worthy of Jesus being her Dr. You seem to promote a works gospel that is, no gospel as one needs to clean up their act by their own works instead of letting the Holy Spirit work in and through them. Works salvation will not save you. I hope you reject the false gospel of works you teach and come to Jesus for His salvation by grace, through faith.

peace and prayers to you.

iggy

iggy:

Thanks for trying to put your feelings into words. I can see this doesn’t come easily for you.

I was pretty sure English is the official language of Montana, but I could be wrong about that.

I think you've misunderstood Mr Iggy and his subtle intentions. Take another look at his writing, The seemingly randomly-placed ellipses are a sign of his piety, an affirmation of his faith in the Triune God. Note the number three. They are a sort of triquetra-of-the-punctuation. And don't miss the lowercase "i" in his name. No doubt he is celebrating the Feast of St. John the Baptist today by remembering John's words, "He must increase and 'i' must decrease."

Dissidens, on this day of all days, your "i"s could use some decreasing. Perhaps you might try a smaller font... or... maybe... even...subscript.

_{hmmmm...you have gave me alot to think abowt...yes...i feel more spirichull already...}